Liberty, Exclusion, and the Meaning of Juneteenth

Andre

Hey everyone, welcome back to Engaging Thought. I'm Andre, and as always, I'm here with Eric. Today, we're diving into a topic that's, well, honestly, it's both inspiring and uncomfortable—liberty, exclusion, and what Juneteenth really means. Eric, you ready for this?

Eric Marquette

Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is one of those episodes where you can't help but feel the weight of history, right? And, Andre, I know you wanted to start with Frederick Douglass. That speech—"What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?"—it's just, I don't know, it hits you in the gut every time you read it.

Andre

Yeah, it really does. I remember, actually, the first time I came across Douglass's speech was in college. I was, uh, I think I was a sophomore, and I stumbled on it in this old anthology. I thought I understood American ideals, you know, liberty, freedom, all that. But reading Douglass, it was like—wait, hold up—there's this whole other side. He says, "This Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn." That line just... it stopped me.

Eric Marquette

Yeah, and the way he calls out the hypocrisy—he doesn't pull any punches. He says, "Your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns... are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy." I mean, that's not just a critique, that's a full-on indictment of the whole system at the time.

Andre

Exactly. And, you know, it's wild because we talk about American ideals like they're these universal truths, but Douglass is saying, look, these ideals didn't include everyone. Independence Day celebrations were happening, but for Black folks—especially those still enslaved—it was just another day of exclusion. I think that really shaped how I see these holidays now. It's not just about fireworks and barbecues, it's about who gets to celebrate and who gets left out.

Eric Marquette

And that exclusion, it's not just historical, right? I mean, as we discussed in a previous episode, these legacies stick around. The way Douglass frames it, it's like he's forcing us to look at the gap between what America says it is and what it actually does. And honestly, that's still a question we're wrestling with today.

Andre

Yeah, and that brings us to Juneteenth. I mean, if Douglass's speech is about exclusion, Juneteenth is about, well, delayed inclusion, right? June 19, 1865—Galveston, Texas—enslaved people finally hear they're free, more than two years after the Emancipation Proclamation. It's wild to think about that delay.

Eric Marquette

Yeah, and the way Juneteenth has evolved—it's not just a history lesson, it's a celebration. You see street festivals, concerts, cookouts, all these ways people come together. But there's also this undercurrent of resilience, and, I guess, a reminder that freedom wasn't just handed over. It was fought for, and even when it was "granted," it was delayed, you know?

Andre

Absolutely. And I think that's why Juneteenth feels so different from the Fourth of July. It's joy, but it's also reflection. It's about community, education, and, honestly, a kind of stubborn hope. And now, with Juneteenth becoming a federal holiday in 2021, there's this official recognition. President Biden said, "Black history is American history." That matters. But, I mean, it took activism, it took people pushing for years to get that recognition.

Eric Marquette

Yeah, and even with that recognition, there's still this question—like, what does it mean to be truly free? I was reading about some of the Juneteenth celebrations this year, and there was this sense of, "Yeah, we've come a long way, but we're not done." It's like, the holiday is both a celebration and a call to keep going.

Andre

Right, and I think that's something we touched on in our episode about racial healing at work. These milestones are important, but they're not the finish line. They're more like, I don't know, checkpoints on a much longer journey. And Juneteenth, for a lot of people, is a day to remember that freedom is ongoing work.

Eric Marquette

That actually makes me think of James Baldwin. I mean, Baldwin had this way of looking at the Black experience in America that was, I don't know, brutally honest but also hopeful. He talked about how Black folks have to look back at history, understand where we are now, and imagine something better for the future. I used one of his essays in a workshop recently, and it sparked some of the most honest conversations about inclusion I've ever seen.

Andre

Yeah, Baldwin is, I mean, he's one of those voices you can't ignore. He asks, how do you make a home in a country that has so often pushed you to the margins, but also shaped who you are? It's that tension—belonging and exclusion at the same time. And, you know, his insights are still so relevant. We're still having these conversations about justice, about who gets to belong, about what it means to be American.

Eric Marquette

And it's not just about looking back, right? It's about using that history to push the conversation forward. Like, how do we create spaces where everyone feels seen? How do we move from just recognizing the past to actually changing the present?

Andre

Exactly. And, you know, as Baldwin would say, it's not about ignoring the pain or pretending everything's fixed. It's about facing the truth, having those tough conversations, and still finding ways to hope. I think that's what keeps me going, honestly. That and, well, talking with you every week, Eric.

Eric Marquette

Hey, same here, Andre. These conversations aren't always easy, but they're necessary. And, uh, for everyone listening, thanks for being part of this ongoing dialogue with us. We're gonna keep digging in, keep asking questions, and hopefully keep moving forward together.

Andre

Alright, that's it for today. We'll be back soon with more Engaging Thought. Take care, Eric.

Eric Marquette

You too, Andre. And thanks to everyone for tuning in. See you next time.