Understanding Race and Building Equity

Eric Marquette

Alright, so let's dive into this. Race. I mean, it's something we all think we get, right? But, uh, if you really stop to peel back the layers... turns out, it’s not what we think it is. Andre, you’ve spoken a lot about race being a social construct. Can we maybe start there? Like, what does that even mean?

Andre Koen

Absolutely. So, when we talk about race as a social construct, we’re we’re really saying that it’s a concept people invented—not something that exists in nature the way, say, gravity does. Historically, race was created to categorize people, often by physical features, to justify hierarchies of power. It was, at its core, a tool for division and, importantly, exploitation. For example, European colonial powers developed racial classifications to legitimize the transatlantic slave trade or the oppression of Indigenous populations.

Eric Marquette

Right, like—race wasn’t just an innocent label for skin color. It was, uh, an actual weapon. And the thing is, that’s not ancient history. I mean, this kind of thinking gets baked into systems over time. Like Jim Crow laws or Apartheid, right?

Andre Koen

Exactly. Let’s take Jim Crow laws in the United States as an example. These laws weren’t just about segregation; they systematically denied African Americans access to resources and rights—things like education, voting, and housing. And in South Africa, Apartheid created a deeply entrenched racial caste system that lasted decades. What these systems did—what so many systems still do—is perpetuate inequality by encoding racial hierarchies into law and policy.

Eric Marquette

And it's not just about laws, is it? It’s more subtle than that sometimes. Like, there's this idea of "whiteness" that wasn’t even consistent back then. I mean, Irish immigrants, Italians—they weren’t considered white right away, were they?

Andre Koen

No, they weren’t. Early on, groups like the Irish or Italians were marginalized. They were often racialized as "other," facing discrimination similar to what African Americans experienced—although, to a lesser extent. But over time, those groups were assimilated into the category of whiteness. That process often came at the expense of aligning themselves against Black people or avoiding association with marginalized communities. This shift bolstered white supremacy by broadening the base of the so-called dominant group, while leaving other racial groups further marginalized.

Eric Marquette

It’s wild. Like, whiteness isn’t even a fixed thing—

Andre Koen

Not at all. It’s remarkably fluid, which shows how artificial it is. And yet, it’s been incredibly effective at maintaining power structures. The point is, race has never been about biology. It’s been about reinforcing hierarchies that advantage one group, particularly white Europeans, and disadvantage others.

Eric Marquette

And that brings us to today, right? I mean, even now, we’re dealing with these inherited hierarchies. Education systems, healthcare access, criminal justice—all of it still reflects those same ideas from back then, doesn’t it?

Andre Koen

Unfortunately, yes. Take wealth inequality, for instance. Generational wealth gaps created by things like slavery or redlining haven’t disappeared; they’ve just compounded. Or look at disparities in school systems—districts in predominantly Black neighborhoods often still face underfunding due to policies rooted in segregation. These structures don’t just dissolve with time. They have to be actively dismantled.

Eric Marquette

Right... and that’s kind of the challenge, isn’t it? Because these aren’t just individual actions—it’s bigger. Systems, policies... all of it was designed to function exactly how it does.

Andre Koen

And that’s where we need to focus—on understanding the systems themselves, not just the individual players within them.

Eric Marquette

So, Andre, we ended last time talking about the importance of focusing on systems, not just individuals. The more I think about it, the more it hits me how huge that scope is. Honestly, it feels... a bit overwhelming. How do we even start tackling something so deeply ingrained when so many still think racism is only about personal prejudice?

Andre Koen

That’s a great point. The, uh, key here is understanding scale. Individual prejudice can be harmful, yes, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the power of systemic racism. Systems—whether it’s housing policies, education funding, or employment practices—they’re what create and sustain inequities. And they’re designed to do just that.

Eric Marquette

Wait, hold on. Are you saying the system is built to exclude? Like, on purpose?

Andre Koen

Yes, though not always intentionally by every individual within it. These systems were, historically, constructed during times when exclusion was both explicit and codified. And unfortunately, many of those foundational frameworks remain in place, subtly shaping outcomes. You see this in things like redlining or even how property taxes fund schools, which creates disparities between, uh, predominantly white suburbs and heavily diverse urban areas.

Eric Marquette

Man, that’s... that’s harsh. And white people, we talk about how racism is a burden for marginalized communities, but isn't it true that it impacts white folks too? Like, in, uh, subtle ways?

Andre Koen

Absolutely. Racism doesn’t exist in a vacuum; it creates divisions within white communities themselves. Historically, white people have been separated by ethnicity, religion, education, even class. For example, Irish and Italian groups were, at one point, not considered fully white. And, uh, even within the broader white population today, elements like classism or divisions around education still perpetuate that separation.

Eric Marquette

Huh. So, you’re saying whiteness creates divisions within itself?

Andre Koen

That’s right. And let’s not forget financial incentives. Things like property values or school reputation—these often tie directly back to policies designed to segregate. Homeowners might resist integration, not necessarily because of explicit racism but due to assumptions about safety or test scores, uh, assumptions often rooted in racial bias. It’s all interconnected.

Eric Marquette

That’s wild. And it’s not just white communities that experience this kind of division, is it? I mean, this also happens within non-white groups, right?

Andre Koen

Oh, absolutely. You’ll see this in colorism, for instance, where lighter skin is often valued more than darker skin. That’s a direct consequence of colonial and systemic racism creating hierarchies even within racialized groups. And this isn’t just about aesthetics—it really affects people’s self-esteem, their confidence. It sends a message that, inherently, some people are "better" or "more deserving" than others based on arbitrary features. That kind of internalized impact is, uh, really damaging.

Eric Marquette

Man. So, racism isn’t just vertical—it’s horizontal too. That’s... heavy.

Andre Koen

It is. And it shows why we need to address racism as more than just individual hatred or prejudice. We’re fighting structures and mindsets that go far deeper and impact everyone—whether or not they realize it.

Eric Marquette

Andre, you’ve really opened my eyes to how intertwined and far-reaching these systems are. It’s a lot to wrap my head around. But now I’m wondering—where do we go from here? You’ve talked about this PERMA model before—a roadmap for well-being that could help foster racial equity. Can you break that down for us?

Andre Koen

Sure. The PERMA model comes from positive psychology, developed by Dr. Martin Seligman. It’s an acronym: Positive Emotion, Engagement, Relationships, Meaning, and Accomplishment. These elements together contribute to what he calls a "flourishing life." The same principles can be applied to racial equity work. It’s about creating spaces where people—and communities—can thrive, not just survive.

Eric Marquette

Okay, hold on. Positive emotions in conversations about race? That feels... tricky, right? Like, isn’t this usually a heavy topic?

Andre Koen

It is, but that’s kinda the point. We—we tend to focus so much on the trauma and injustice, which are critical to acknowledge. But, if we don’t balance that with hope and optimism, we risk burnout. For instance, celebrating cultural diversity, showcasing success stories, or reflecting on progress—those actions shift the narrative from one of fear to empowerment.

Eric Marquette

Got it. So, it’s about balancing the weight of the issue with, like, reminders of what’s possible. That makes sense. What’s next—Engagement?

Andre Koen

Exactly. Engagement is where action comes in. Imagine this: An organization brings people together for what they call listening sessions, but no one feels like they can speak openly. Well, that’s not engagement—that’s performance. True engagement means creating spaces where people feel safe to challenge norms, ask questions, and contribute to solutions. It’s active, not passive.

Eric Marquette

Yeah, otherwise it’s just another checkbox exercise. And Relationships—this one seems huge. I mean, how do you even start building trust across racial divides when there’s so much history there?

Andre Koen

It’s complex, for sure. But it begins with vulnerability—being willing to listen deeply and understand the fears, pains, and aspirations of others. I once facilitated a community dialogue between local law enforcement and residents in a neighborhood with deep mistrust. By centering conversations on shared goals—like safety for everyone—we started to see empathy bridge those divides. Trust isn’t built overnight, but these moments matter.

Eric Marquette

That’s powerful. And the Meaning piece—how do you find that in something as overwhelming as systemic racism?

Andre Koen

Meaning comes from seeing the bigger picture. Racial repair isn’t just fixing old wounds; it’s about building a future that aligns with our shared humanity. It’s intrinsic motivation—acknowledging the dignity of every person and connecting that to a broader purpose, whether it’s faith, ethics, or simply the desire to leave a better world for the next generation.

Eric Marquette

Right, because personal values can drive involvement. And what about Accomplishment, the last part of the model? Where does that factor in?

Andre Koen

Accomplishment is all about celebrating the journey. Too often, we focus solely on what’s left to do. But real progress happens in steps. Recognizing small victories—whether it's a workplace achieving diversity milestones or a community successfully advocating for policy change—keeps the momentum going. And it reminds us that change is possible.

Eric Marquette

Wait, so you’re saying we don’t need to solve everything all at once to feel successful?

Andre Koen

Exactly. It’s about building momentum, acknowledging each step forward, and keeping people energized for the long haul. Every small win matters.

Eric Marquette

Andre, that really got me thinking about how each step can build momentum for systemic change. But, when we talk about efforts like affirmative action or the notion of "reverse discrimination," it seems like the conversation gets clouded with, uh, a lot of misunderstandings, right?

Andre Koen

That’s putting it mildly. The term "reverse discrimination" often misrepresents what equity initiatives are about. Historically, programs like affirmative action were designed to level the playing field—addressing centuries of systemic exclusion. They weren’t created to punish or disadvantage any group, but to give marginalized communities a fair shot at resources and opportunities.

Eric Marquette

Right, but there’s this perception that affirmative action stacks the deck against white folks. Where do you think that stems from?

Andre Koen

A lot of it comes from the fear of change and, honestly, misinformation. When you've benefited from privilege for generations—knowingly or not—efforts to correct inequity can feel like a loss, even though they’re not designed to exclude anyone. Legal cases have underscored this. For example, the Supreme Court’s decision in Bakke struck down quotas but maintained that race can be one of many factors considered, because diversity itself benefits everyone.

Eric Marquette

And yet, those stories still persist. It’s like—affirmative action sounds scarier than, say, legacy admissions, even though the latter probably impacts fairness way more, right?

Andre Koen

Exactly. Legacy admissions, donor preferences—those are systemic advantages that disproportionately favor wealthier, often white families. Yet they rarely receive the same scrutiny. Addressing misconceptions like these requires us to challenge the idea that equity means taking something away. Ultimately, it’s about expanding the table, not pulling chairs out from under anyone.

Eric Marquette

Okay, so let’s shift to action. What do institutions—workplaces, schools—what do they need to do to actually prioritize inclusivity?

Andre Koen

Action starts with self-awareness and courageous conversations. Institutions need to honestly look at their policies and practices. Are their hiring processes inclusive? Are they addressing pay gaps? More importantly, are they giving marginalized voices a seat at decision-making tables? This isn’t about checking boxes; it’s systemic redesign.

Eric Marquette

And for individuals? Like, how do we help listeners bring this into their daily lives?

Andre Koen

First, self-reflection—understanding your own biases and privileges. Then, actively support diversity initiatives. That could mean mentoring someone from an underrepresented background, advocating for inclusive policies, or continually educating yourself on these issues. It’s not enough to be passive. You need to be deliberate.

Eric Marquette

You’re saying it’s not about one grand gesture—it’s about showing up consistently, in all parts of life. Makes sense. Alright, Andre, any final thoughts before we close?

Andre Koen

I’d just say that equity work, at its heart, is about creating a world where everyone can thrive. It takes commitment, it takes courage, and it absolutely takes all of us moving together. This isn’t about perfection; it’s about progress.

Eric Marquette

Well said. And on that note, thanks for tuning in, everyone. Andre, always a pleasure having these conversations with you.

Andre Koen

Likewise, Eric. It’s been a great discussion.

Eric Marquette

Alright, folks, keep thinking critically, keep embracing change, and we’ll see you next time on Engaging Thought.